118 replies to this topic

[BlueAndWhiteArmy]

Cove 1-7 south park

An early 14 minute hat-trick from lavery killed off cove early on. Cove with some poor defending in the early stages of the game. 4-0 at HT with George smith catchin on to a through ball finished easily. Second half pretty much the same cove not offering much and park looking like they would score everytime they attacked seconded half goals from lavery again and two from Chris smith. Cove goal was a good finish after a bit of poor defending but really game was won at HT.

[pjmole]

E&E Ed, on 1 February 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

pjmole, on 31 January 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Thanks to the ref & Epsom for the 2 hour round trip. Surely it should of been called off earlier.

Do not include us in your accusations pjmole. It was totally out of our hands, so be careful who you criticise. Both us and Merstham made every effort to get this game on.

So you had a wasted journey. Ah well, sorry about that. I spent ten hours creating a programme and was putting the flags out when the referee decided it was off, while the Merstham guy was painting the lines. Sorry the ref couldn't get take time of work to get there two hours earlier to save little old you the journey.

What annoyed me most of all was that the game should have been played anyway. After it was called off with the official decision being because "players might hurt themselves if they fell" (referee's words) I went out to the "so-called" firmer bit of ground and was able to create a hole with my thumb. The pitches are much harder in August, but no one seems to think about that when making these decisions. Of course the pitch was firm, it's January and it's a bit chilly.

The pitch was perfectly playable last night and the decision totally reeked of "elf and safety" from a ref that was only concerned with maybe getting some sort of litigation thrown at him if a player did suffer a freak accident. All the players wanted to play, and an enormous amount of people were inconvnienced by one person who in most cases has never even played at that level and despite being given the authority to, is less equipped than many others at the ground to be making that sort of decision.

I thought the decision was cowardly and I'll repeat it here. I left the ground soon afterwards while the officials were thumbing through the handbook to find out how much they would be paid. Clubs at our level can't afford things like this, and I still struggle to understand why an official can't consult with both Managers before making a decision that will inconvenience so many. Instead he makes an arbitrary decision with no thought for anyone but himself, and I can justify that by saying that if he really was interested in the players welfare, he'd have spoken to both teams who were by that time present. (6.15).

As I said yesterday, if it was three or four below then fair enough, but the game could easily have been played. To prove this I went down to Fetcham Grove instead; a ground right next to a river where freezing is more of an issue, and which has had weather related issues in the past. They played with no question at all. However, all I kept thinking about during the game was how much money our club had wasted due to a rank bad decision.

We'll see Molesey later in the season but if the same ref is appointed then we'd better make it a damp evening in April. pjmole, maybe you might want to get the ref's phone number before travelling next time and ask him to let you know whether its on.

sorry  E&E Ed

But it didn't look like anyone from Epsom or I suppose Molesey was trying to get the ref to change his mind. I did make the point to the ref that the ground is harder at the end of season but no one wanted to listen.

[johnnojudo]

Fair play to our ref last night (Afc Hayes 0-3 Chertsey). Pitch had a frost on the top and it was definitely iffy. Our studs broke up the top layer of frost and even though it was definitely hard on top, there was certainly some give in the pitch.
We all thought the match would not finish with the temperature expected to drop, but it didnt and we were able to finish the game. The game actually finished late due to the referee pulling up at half time with a calf problem.
Common sense prevailed last night.

[NICE GUY]

johnnojudo, on 1 February 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Fair play to our ref last night (Afc Hayes 0-3 Chertsey). Pitch had a frost on the top and it was definitely iffy. Our studs broke up the top layer of frost and even though it was definitely hard on top, there was certainly some give in the pitch.
We all thought the match would not finish with the temperature expected to drop, but it didnt and we were able to finish the game. The game actually finished late due to the referee pulling up at half time with a calf problem.
Common sense prevailed last night.

JJ would you have said the same had you lost ?

[johnnojudo]

NO!

But the pitch was playable during the whole night so I would be lying if id said the match should not have gone ahead!

[Krooner]

EE Ed I will not disagree with any part of what you say as you were there.

I do want to put this "Ground hard in August" argument.

There is a huge difference between a hard pitch in August and one because of frost.  On a hard ground you can still control your movements and stop easily.  On a hard pitch due to frost this becomes a lot harder and people are at danger from going into or even over the boards around the ground or possibly a collision on the field of play because neither player could stop.

Not in any way a reason for last night just wanted to point out the differences in hard pitches and frozen pitches.

[johnnojudo]

you also have to remember that there is a lot more grass on the august pitches.

[newby marvel]

jj i like your honesty

[Weeble]

Not on the May ones though.......

[Smudge]

Do Officials get paid when They call a game off,or just travelling expenses?

[Mewcenary]

Also, a hard pitch in August will still have some form of 'give' underneath -- that's the nature of earth!

However, a pitch which is frozen solid is just that... absolutely solid.  The water will have expanded in the process of becoming ice so there will be no 'give' whatsoever in it.

Full credit to Knaphill here for getting their pitch in such good condition for last night.

[Krooner]

Smudge, on 1 February 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Do Officials get paid when They call a game off,or just travelling expenses?

I think they get half fee if I remember correctly.

[Smudge]

As Del Boy would say 'A NICE LITTLE EARNER'then Rodney.

[Krooner]

Depends on where they came from and how many extra miles they travelled Smudge.

[E&E Ed]

I understand your point about control on a slippery pitch Krooner.

However, surely the two Managers are a better judge of this than a referee, and my real bone of contention here is that just because one person (probably with limited playing experience) doesn't fancy it for whatever spurious reason, he can inconvenience so many people, players, officials, supporters etc. without getting an opinion from those who have a better knowledge of such situations from their own experience? He is judge, jury and executioner and apparently answerable to no one.

Now I accept that sometimes one Manager may be a little short in numbers or quality and insist that the game is called off, quoting unsafe conditions when they really have an ulterior motive, but that certainly won't happen that often, and if the game was being called off anyway, then there is nothing to lose and would enable many of these borderline games to be played.

Playing devil's advocate and before someone jumps in with this scenario, I also recognise that an official can inconvenience many by his award of a contentious decision during the match, but that is a judgement call that he has to make on the spot with limited assistance, while this sort of incident can be avoided with consultation.

[Krooner]

So many years ago I was in the middle of a match that was seriously in doubt due to an unfit pitch.

The season had been rough and leagues were well behind on games.  I spoke with both managers and they agreed that they would like to play the game and as such we decided that we would go ahead with the game.

20 minutes in and it was 2-0 to one of the teams so what do you think the other side started to do.  As it happens I awarded the team who were 2-0 up a penalty and when the ball sunk in the mud I decided we would never complete the game.

My point is that it is all very well managers agreeing but as soon as they start losing they start demanding the game be called off.  That is why really the ref should be left alone to make the decision.

All this of course is only for discussion and relates in no way to what happened last night at Merstham.

[Chris Clapham]

Krooner, on 1 February 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

So many years ago I was in the middle of a match that was seriously in doubt due to an unfit pitch.

The season had been rough and leagues were well behind on games.  I spoke with both managers and they agreed that they would like to play the game and as such we decided that we would go ahead with the game.

20 minutes in and it was 2-0 to one of the teams so what do you think the other side started to do.  As it happens I awarded the team who were 2-0 up a penalty and when the ball sunk in the mud I decided we would never complete the game.

My point is that it is all very well managers agreeing but as soon as they start losing they start demanding the game be called off.  That is why really the ref should be left alone to make the decision.

All this of course is only for discussion and relates in no way to what happened last night at Merstham.

It can work though Kroons. Our Surrey Cup game against AFC Wimbledon 2 years ago should not really have gone ahead due to a heavy pitch but both clubs wanted to give it a try. What transpired was semi-farcical but the 300 crowd left entertained and there were no complaints from AFC at all despite their 1-2 loss. (They were all a credit to Wimbledon that night)!
Like minded (and dare I say football minded) people can get matches on!

[Krooner]

I agree Chris but trust me once bitten twice shy !!

[WindsorFC Programme Editor]

Seems to me as if the officials are damned iof they do and damned if they dont.

[Krooner]

Spot on Prog Ed.  Banstead got alted for calling off early and Dorking for calling off late